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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby 77Travco on Mon May 16, 2016 9:30 am

How many miles are on this engine? Unless it's got a whole bunch of miles, I don't see the chain jumping. Nor on a hard driven low miles 440. I suggest maybe you look for a qualified mechanic who knows older Mopars that can come out and give you a second opinion. Keep us posted.
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby 72twodoor270 on Sat May 21, 2016 8:02 pm

So- I pulled all of the plugs out again, bumped it to TDC on #1 plug, then hand turned it to 0 timing mark on the tab. I then dropped the distro back in and put the plugs back in, double checked the plug wires and set everything back in place. I hit the key and it just turns over... I turned the distro to full advance (against the water pump) and the next time I hit the key, it sputtered to life. ran like a one lung tractor and sputtered out. I then changed the plugs one off clockwise, reset the distro to center and tried it. sputtering.

I turned (retarded) the timing all the way and tried it again. It coughed to life and actually ran better fully retarded but clearly not right.

I was frustrated (again) and jumped in me truck and went down to the local Dairy Queen. there was a locals car show and I walked over to the nearest old Mopar guy. we talked for some time, but he clearly wanst a gear head. he just liked his old cuda. don't get me wrong, he new the difference between the open end and the box end, but that was about it. I did notice he had the GM HEI distro set up. I asked him about it and he said that was how he bought it.

I think its stuck out of time. one cog off... Damn it anyways.
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby badbillybiker on Sun May 22, 2016 7:45 am

Talk about crummy luck.... The first warning was when he said he bought it that way... 'woulda went looking for for a nother Mopar gear head who actually does/did the work on his engine........ Dumb, dumb, dumb question... compression? low or none?....indicitive of already bent valve or valves? keep walking those wires about the cap... it IS possible for a rewiring of firing order for a jumped chain motor to start...if still close enough to the original setting... you sound so close... A dial indicator on the #1 intake rocker (no more lift) and checking..one more time... the zero mark/tdc on the damper...... grab a beer and go back to the cruise ins... there has to be has to be ONE knowledgeable mopar owner there...the new generation???
IMO/BBB
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby 77Travco on Sun May 22, 2016 2:29 pm

Dang, I wish I was closer to you so I could get my hands on it. It's not easy trying to diagnose unseen or heard.
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby 72twodoor270 on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:36 pm

I pulled the 413 I needed to confirm if it actually jumped time. The job wasn't that bad. now that its was out I pulled the water pump off and the timing chain cover.
image1.JPG


guess what?...
image.JPG


But as I messed with it I noticed that the chain isn't that tight. and if I bump it by hand one side tightens a bit and I can get the dots to line up. (I used a straight edge to see how lined up they really are)
image2.JPG


I don't think its out of time.

how much slack should be in the timing chain? should the lower gear be "loose"... Its not sloppy loose, but its movable when the chain is a bit slack.

I am at a loss. I was convinced it had jumped a cog. but there doesn't appear to be any abnormal wear, no broken teeth, no indication that anything's wrong with the timing.

UGHHhhhhh.... WTH?
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby 72twodoor270 on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:38 pm

I'm not sure why the pics are crooked and off to oneside... hell that's a lot like the timing, its close, but just not right.
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby badbillybiker on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:54 pm

the chain is always sloppy on the slack side... of course tight on the pull side... its when too sloppy that allows the chain to jump...when motor pops/springs back from detonationback firing etc. if the marks are right , thats not the problem... is the gear slipping at the bottom of dist? like a sheared roll pin or something?... btw, no gear drive just chain JMO
BBB
Those marks look good to me,,,trhe bottom gear kind of floats but is kept correct by keyway and chain and top sprocket bolts.
Based on comments, that was the conclusion done remotely of jumped chain...too many factors are now arising.............
Last edited by badbillybiker on Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby 72twodoor270 on Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:00 pm

Distro gear... I will have to poke around in there to see if that's loose/slipping.
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby KB2CRK on Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:58 am

I am wondering if that is enough slack to cause a timing issue. I remember timing chains being a little tighter that that. Very little slack sliding both gears into place at the same time. It has been over 15 years since I have done a timing chain. Plenty of timing belts since then but it has been a while.
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Re: 413 ignition upgrades?

Unread postby 77Travco on Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:49 pm

Well, now that the engine is out, you may as well take it to a machine shop and have them freshen it up.
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